Imagine this: Martin Luther King Jr. and Charlie Kirk seated at a small café table, breakfast plates before them. After a prayer and some light talk about family life—both as “girl dads”— and beloved husbands, they turn to the issues dividing America in 2025.

This thought experiment asks us to open both head and heart. Each man, assassinated 57 years apart for his convictions, represents a different vision of faith and politics. For faithful American’s across the political spectrum, such a meeting might be imagined as a heavenly dialogue—a sacred conversation in eternal life.

Would Charlie frame the exchange as a “prove me wrong” debate, tossing bold claims as he often did on college campuses—even on that fateful day at Utah Valley University in September 2025? And when Martin responded, after a sip of coffee, would he press Charlie with probing questions, or rise with the cadence of his unforgettable “I Have a Dream” speech from the March on Washington, August 28, 1963?

What matters is less the answers and more the invitation: to reimagine dialogue across time and politics in service of healing wounds, seeking truth, bridging divides, and rekindling the Great American Spirit of Conversation upon which our nation was founded. To Make America Talk Again.

Though King and Kirk spoke from different eras, imagine the power of Dr. King recounting his leadership in Montgomery at age 26, his nonviolent campaigns in Birmingham, and the struggle for voting rights in Selma that led to “Bloody Sunday” and the Voting Rights Act of 1965. Would such stories shift Charlie Kirk’s perspective on racial equality? Would their shared faith transcend their racial differences? Would they agree in some areas, and agree to disagree on others? Would the conversation turn into laughter as they commiserate about the challenges of leading social change while raising young families?

How might Charlie’s arguments in defense of family and faith land with Dr. King? How would Charlie’s desire and willingness to engage university students and leaders in sit down conversations to explore different perspectives land with Dr. King? Would their conversation escalate into argument, hatred, and violence?

In truth, both men were fierce defenders of the U.S. Constitution—especially the First Amendment freedoms of speech and assembly. Their lives, example, and legacies show how those freedoms are essential for change.

Neither Kirk nor King sought to silence conversation; both pressed it open, even with adversaries. King, a student of Martin Buber’s philosophy of dialogue, reminded us in Strength to Love that segregation reduces people to “I-It” objects instead of “I-Thou” persons.

Kirk, a Christian first and conservative second, advocated for the dignity of all human life—that we are all beloved and forgiven children of God.  His approach to debate and dialogue offered many young people a message of hope: that despite what the mainstream culture tells them, they are loved and that their life means something.

Perhaps the two men would finally agree on this: that men and women, created in the image of the one true God—honored in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam—are equal in dignity and worth.

Surely, in their shared Christian faith, both men would remind us that when societies abandon faith, truth, and morality, they unravel. History shows us the cost. The American democratic experiment is too precious to risk by turning our backs on these stabilizing virtues, or turning our backs on each other. Today, we are called to a better way—a way of dialogue rooted in patience, empathy, and love. Let us choose conversations that heal rather than divide, that honor human dignity, and that keep alive the hope of a more just and faithful nation.

May God Bless our nation and help make our conversations more civil, fruitful, and sacred.

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A non-profit CEO, whom I’ve been working with for the past 9 years, invited me to his central team’s leadership retreat the Washington D.C. area.

The meeting was held at the Bolger Center, a beautiful 83 acre space used primarily by the U.S. Postal Service for training. Incidentally, this facility was originally built in 1920 and sold to the Sisters of Mercy in 1931 serving as a school, residence for nuns, and eventually their headquarters. It was a perfect venue for a Sacred Conversation about culture for a mission-driven non-profit organization.

The purpose of meeting was to have a structured conversation about the organization’s culture. “Why culture? Why now?,” I asked my colleague.

“Well, Chris, we’ve grown 4x since I took over seven years ago. We have a lot of changes that need to take place over the next year. We are now a 100% virtual organization. And we have one of the most important missions in education,” he replied. “I want to ensure that we preserve what makes our organization so special, as we make these required changes in pursuit of our mission.”

Culture impacts all of us, whether we realize it or not. Our relationships have a “culture.” Our families have a “culture,” impacting how we communicate with each other, celebrate important events, and practice certain rituals together. Our workplaces have a “culture.” Our communities have a “culture.” Our Churches have a unique “culture.” Our country has a national “culture”--one that’s becoming increasingly toxic.

What is Culture?

Culture is the sum of what we expect and accept from one another. Culture is a powerful force that shapes how we behave, how we interpret signs, symbols, and others’ behavior. The “culture” of the airport that I’m writing in this morning is what prevents me from standing on my chair and shouting, “Fire!!! Everybody run.” This would not be acceptable or appropriate in this cultural context. It would not be a moral action. There would be consequences for violating this cultural expectation.

Culture is like the water that a fish swims in—it’s both visible and essential, and also something that we tend to take for granted until the rules and expectations of culture get tested, violated, or become toxic.

Cultures take time to develop. Culture has history. Once a culture forms, it’s difficult to change because, by definition, it becomes, simply, “the way we do things around here.”

Reflections from our Sacred Conversation about Culture

Culture is Sacred—What’s the most important part of an organization or a human system? Its leaders? Its members, participants, or employees who serve, support it, and move on? It’s daily operations? Its deepest values, beliefs, and assumptions?

While each of these elements of human systems are important, above all, a group’s purpose (reason for existing), mission, and culture are what “set it apart.” The culture of a group determines how it makes decisions, prioritizes certain things over others based on assumptions, values, and beliefs, and achieves what it sets out to do—its purpose and mission. Culture is the heart of a human system.

So, for mission-driven organizations that are doing work out of a sense of love, devotion, and calling—work that is “set apart” for the common good and for God (the most important work of all)--culture is truly sacred.

Culture is learned—We transmit culture through conversation. “Wash your hands. Don’t talk with your mouth full. Say please and thank you.” These are norms and behaviors that are learned. It’s the same in organizations: “Send an agenda before the meeting. Write short emails, but schedule time together for deeper discussions. Don’t schedule meetings with “the boss” on Friday afternoons.” These unwritten rules of culture are learned.

Culture can be changed—although changing culture is difficult. I’ve learned how to change culture using the power of conversation. This is how I used the model. I hope it gives you some ideas about the importance of culture and how to use Sacred Conversations to appreciate, preserve, and enhance "culture" in your relationships, family, organization, or community. 

• Invitation—We invited the right group of people to the conversation about culture. The leaders. The one’s who set expectations and reinforce norms about what’s acceptable. But we also invited the next two levels of full time staff. Staff play a critical role in shaping and transmitting culture. 
• Intention—We jointly agreed upon the intent, aim, and purpose of our conversation: To collectively define what makes the organization’s culture unique, to appreciate the beauty of the culture that the leaders would never want to see change (we called these “roses”). To reflect on new things that were emerging in the organization that were exciting, but also unknown (we called them “buds”), and to address pain points and elements of the culture that get under peoples’ skin (the “thorns”).
• Inquiry—It was my job to get the conversation going with some powerful questions and a loose structure (i.e., the Sacred Conversations Model) in pursuit of our intention. I was the professional “Helper.” The leaders of the organization were “Seekers” on a journey to discover and define what makes their culture so special, and to seek ways of making their culture EVEN better.
• Illumination—The questions that we discussed, the generative dialogue that we shared led to new insights about how the expectations and “unwritten rules” of the culture impact things like daily communication, shared accountability, how meetings are run, resources shared, and how to build deeper connection in a virtual organization. And finally, this led to:
• Integration—The insights, awareness, and connections that people gained throughout the conversation naturally lead to action and commitments that were made. Being more intentional about the culture’s “roses,” developing intentional plans to communicate and “transmit” the culture to the next generation. Taking advantage of those aspects of the culture that will propel the changes that need to be made, and going into the changes with “eyes wide open” about the aspects of the culture that could slow down the change—planning for these, allowing time for these, and committing to more Sacred Conversations to allow people to build belief in the changes and work through resistance.

My key take aways from this Sacred Conversation About Culture:

• The Sacred Conversations Model works well in helping groups identify and “name” their unique culture.
• Sacred Conversations can also help groups, teams, and organizations CHANGE their culture!
• We made tremendous progress on naming and building an action plan for the organization to continue their cultural transformation, preservation, and stewardship journey in just six hours (with lunch included).
• Everyone participates in shaping culture. We become what we repeatedly expect and accept of one another.
• The cultural ‘tone’ is set at the top, but echoes throughout the organization at all levels.

If you’d like to learn more about how to use Sacred Conversations to understand the culture of your group, family, community, or organization—let’s have a Sacred Conversation about Culture!

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A Sacred Conversation for Mom

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What does it mean to become a beloved disciple? 

John 13:23, 14:21, 19:26-27, 21:7 give us some hints to reflect on. 

The beloved disciple as portrayed in these verses reflects the following characteristics:

He knows Jesus

Human beings cannot love someone, in the deepest sense, whom they do not know. And we  cannot offer ourselves completely to someone whom we do not love. John 14:21 shows us that true discipleship requires deep love. That deep love for Jesus compels us to obey and keep his commandments. This is only possible by truly knowing Jesus--his divine and human nature, his birth, mission, teaching, and pascal mystery. His promises, grace, and forgiveness. This is the depth of knowing Jesus that he calls us to. And as we deepen our relationship, our profound love, he will love his beloved disciples. As the Lord promised, "he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him" (Jn 14:21). 

He recognizes Jesus in himself 

In knowing and loving Jesus, the beloved disciple recognizes himself in the body of Christ and Jesus in himself. In the verses preceding John 14:21, Jesus tells his disciples that soon the world will see him no more, "but you will see me; because I live, you will live also...I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you" (Jn 19-20). Through faith in knowing Jesus, the beloved disciple realizes the fulfillment of this promise. We feel the presence of Jesus in us, through us, and with us. We long to remain close, "lying close to the breast of Jesus" (Jn 13:23). 

He recognizes Jesus in others (Mary)

In knowing and loving Jesus, the beloved disciple also recognizes Christ in others and responds to them with the same love, compassion, and friendship. "When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing" at the foot of the cross and says, "'Woman, behold, your son!' Then he said to the disciple, 'Behold, your mother!'" (Jn 19:26-27), he is still teaching--even unto his last earthly breath. As Jesus, lives and grows in the heart of the beloved disciple, he grows in familial-like kinship. He comes to understand, appreciate, and stand in awe-struck fear of the power of God's love and mercy, that we might all become sons and daughters of the Son, that we grow to see and love Mary as the Mother of us all--the New Eve. And that we are, thus, compelled to respond toward others keeping and living his second great Commandment. 

He is patiently obedient

In knowing and loving Jesus, the beloved disciple follows, listens, and obeys Jesus' commandments though, at times, he may not understand. The tender moment between the patient, beloved disciple sketched in John 13:23, is followed by Peter's characteristic hot-headed beckon, "Tell us who it is of whom he speaks" (Jn 13:24). Jesus does not respond. Jesus does, however, respond to the beloved disciple's patient inquiry, modeled after Jesus' own perfect role modeling of inquiry. "So, lying thus, close to the breast of Jesus, he said to him, 'Lord, who is it?'" (Jn 13:25). Scriptural evidence, also points us to the patient obedience of the beloved disciple when, by knowing Jesus, loving Jesus, recognizing him in himself and others, the disciple recognizes Mary as his own mother, the Blessed Mother of us all, "And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home" (Jn 19:27). No questions. No negotiation. No, "Well, let me check with my family." Just charitable, loving embrace of God's will. 

Becoming a Beloved Disciple

As I've attempted to illustrate, we are all seekers, journeying together to become a beloved disciple of Christ. As these scriptural reflections teach us, there are simple, practical, and life-giving practices that we can integrate into our Christian lives to become a beloved disciple. I'll list three with some examples:

1. Get to know Jesus deeply and personally through prayer, learning and reflecting on his Word, and patient listening.  We can also reflect on his pascal mystery often. We can deeper our relationship and lay closer to to his breast through living a more intentionally sacramental life--in our marriages, reconciliation, and eucharist. We cannot love someone whom we do not know.

2. Keep and obey his commandments. In knowing and loving Jesus, we are transformed. We discover how truly gentle his yoke is, and we want to obey his commandments. By understanding his life, Gospel message, teaching, and infinite love for humanity, we more deeply understand his commandments, not as a set of rules, but as a right response to his mercy, suffering, and ultimate sacrifice for our sins. 

3. Practice seeing the face of Christ in others. It's far easier to claim a personal relationship with Jesus, than it is to truly embrace and love the stranger, immigrant, orphan, and widow--particularly when we live in fear, distrust, and conflict. However, the more we know and love Jesus, the more we are challenged to do just that--to love our neighbor as ourself. Through daily encounters, and what I call Sacred Conversations, we can all practice loving Jesus by seeing the face of Christ in ourselves and others as we become beloved disciples.

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Literary Exploration:

• Exposure to a diverse range of genres and authors.
• Encourages reading outside of one's comfort zone.
• Expands knowledge of literature and storytelling styles.

Intellectual Stimulation:

• Stimulates critical thinking through discussion and analysis.
• Encourages deeper reflection on the human experience.
• Expands vocabulary and language comprehension.

Community and Connection:

• Fosters a sense of inclusion, belonging, and community.
• Provides an opportunity to connect with people who share similar interests.
• Builds friendships and meaningful relationships.

Cultural Understanding:

• Explores diverse perspectives and cultural experiences through the written word.
• Promotes empathy and understanding by delving into different worldviews.
• Enhances awareness of social and historical contexts presented in books.

Personal Growth:

• Promotes self-discovery through reflections on personal connections to the material.
• Encourages goal-setting for reading and intellectual development.
• Offers a platform for sharing and understanding personal beliefs and values.

Stress Relief and Relaxation:

• Provides a constructive and enjoyable leisure activity.
• Offers an escape from daily stresses through the immersive world of books.
• Creates a positive and relaxing environment for self-care.

Enhanced Communication Skills:

• Improves verbal communication through discussions.
• Enhances active listening skills.
• Encourages articulation of thoughts and opinions.

Accountability and Discipline:

• Sets reading goals and deadlines, promoting discipline.
• Fosters a commitment to consistent reading habits.
• Creates accountability through shared expectations with fellow members.

Community and Fun:

• Facilitates enjoyable and entertaining discussions.
• Provides a platform for shared laughter and enjoyment.
• Adds an element of fun to the reading experience.

Learning and Personal Development:

• Enhances knowledge on a wide range of topics.
• Encourages continuous learning through exposure to new ideas.
• Facilitates spiritual growth through reflection and prayerful action.

Being part of a book club goes beyond the act of reading; it enriches lives by creating a supportive community that values learning, discussion, and the shared joy of exploring the vast world of fiction or non-fiction literature.

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In the Gospel of Luke (11:17), a profound teaching from Jesus echoes through the ages: "Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste, and house will fall against house." This ancient wisdom remains astonishingly relevant today, offering valuable insights into the consequences of division and strife.

Unity Strengthens, Division Weakens:
Jesus' message reminds us that division, whether in a kingdom, a family, or a community, is a destructive force. When people within a group are at odds with each other, their collective strength diminishes, and the very foundation upon which their unity stands weakens. It's a universal truth that transcends time and culture.

Historical and Modern Parallels:
Throughout history, we've seen examples of kingdoms and nations torn apart by internal strife. Civil wars and revolutions have wreaked havoc on societies, resulting in suffering, loss, and instability. In the modern world, this wisdom remains applicable, as nations grappling with internal conflicts and divisions often experience tremendous challenges.Today we pray for all those suffering loss from division in the Holy Land.

Families and Communities:
The teaching is not limited to kingdoms or nations; it applies equally to smaller groups. Families torn by internal strife suffer emotional and relational damage. Similarly, communities divided by discord find it challenging to progress collectively toward common goals.

Seeking Unity:
Jesus' message encourages us to seek unity, cooperation, and understanding. It highlights the importance of resolving conflicts through peaceful means, fostering an atmosphere of mutual respect and empathy. When people work together harmoniously, they can achieve great feats and withstand adversities.

The timeless wisdom of Luke 11:17 serves as a reminder of the perils of division and the strength of unity. It calls upon us to mend our differences, promote peace, and strive for the common good. In a world often marked by discord, these words from the Gospel offer a path toward a more harmonious and prosperous future. 

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As delegates prepare for the October 4th opening of the Synod on Synodality assembly, I'm moved to reflect on sources of division and hope. 

What do I mean by "sources?" Sources are causes that spark an effect, in this case division and/or hope. 

According to the Catholic News Agency, “We may be divided by different hopes,” Father Timothy Radcliffe said in a retreat meditation on Oct. 1, “But if we listen to the Lord and to each other, seeking to understand his will for the Church and the world, we shall be united in a hope that transcends all our disagreements.”

Sources (or causes) of division:

Fr. Radcliffe's words suggest that sources of division include: different hopes for the future of the Church, fear of change, fear of no change, personal limitations and limited points of view based on our identities, different understandings of the current reality, and different visions for the future.

These sources of division highlight our differences, cause fear, and divide us. When we only see difference, we cannot listen with an open heart. We fail to seek deeper understanding. And we retreat to what is familiar--to that which divided us in the first place. Seems a bit hopeless, doesn't it? 

Sources (or causes) of hope:

Fr. Radcliffe's words also shed light on two powerful sources hope, which include: listening (to the Lord and to each other), and seeking to understand his will for the Church and the world. 

Listening to each other is a source or cause of hope. This is a powerful concept to meditate on, and one that I reflect on quite a bit in my forthcoming book "Sacred Conversations: How God Wants us to Communicate." Listening opens our minds and our hearts to new ways of understanding. 

Listening provides an avenue to familiarize ourself with the sources of division that prevent us from journeying forward together (namely fear of difference and fear of change). When we listen to seek deeper understanding, we must move closer to that which we fear. We must ask questions. We must suspend judgement. And we must act from a place of love and compassion.

This isn't always easy. Call to mind the times when you fail to listen in this way--the times when you fail to listen with lovingkindness like God wants you to.

Listening to God's will is a second source of hope, according to Radcliffe. Listening to God's will for his people and his Church involves attending to movements of the spirit--to that which consoles (goodness, light, unity, justice, peace, etc.). 

Reflection

The prophet Isaiah wrote, "Listen to me in silence, O islands; let the people renew their strength; let them approach, then let them speak; let us together draw near for judgement." (41:1) "Fear not, for I am with you, be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you , I will help you, I will uphold you with my victorious right hand" (41:10). 

Keep those in Rome who have gathered for Synod on Synodality, to listen to each other and to discern God's will for our Holy Church, in your prayers over the next three weeks. 

Pray for the grace of listening and the discernment of God's will. Pray for hope, strength, love, and peace.

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In a culture marked by rapid changes, diverse perspectives, and complex challenges, the concept of synodality has gained renewed significance within the Catholic church. Synodality, at its core, embodies the principles of collaboration, shared decision-making, and collective discernment. It is the art of engaging in thoughtful and inclusive discussions to arrive at a deeper understanding and consensus on matters of importance. One powerful tool that has emerged to facilitate synodality is the practice of "Sacred Conversations." These conversations provide a structured and intentional framework for fostering open dialogue, enhancing communal engagement, and enabling profound decision-making.

Sacred Conversations encompass an approach that is grounded in respect, humility, and active listening. Unlike traditional top-down decision-making processes, where authority and power often dictate outcomes, Sacred Conversations embrace the diversity of voices within a community or organization. This approach recognizes that each individual's perspective is valuable and contributes to the collective wisdom. By creating an environment where all participants feel heard and valued, Sacred Conversations empower participants to explore complex issues from multiple angles, fostering a holistic understanding of the matter at hand.

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As with all things, discerning God’s will for an organization is a gift. “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God—not because of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them” Eph 2: 8-9.

The Sacred Conversations framework and model provide discerning leaders with a helpful process for: Clarifying values, engaging in generative, future-focused dialogue, and—by working with each other and with the Holy Spirit—identifying possible courses of action and choosing better options around organizational matters such as strategy, structure, resource allocation, and staffing.

When applied to leadership and organizational discernment, Sacred Conversations provides a common and approachable language, principles, and rules of engagement to help leaders and teams: strengthen trust and interpersonal relationships, reconcile differences, make difficult decisions in service of their mission, build a stronger team, and build a thriving community.   

This article explains: 

• What Sacred Conversations for discerning leaders consists of (the process), and
• Promising practices for implementation based on 20 years of research and consulting expertise

Foundations of the Framework

As I have written, Sacred Conversations are human interactions designed to help participants involved become better versions of themselves. This is the definition that I provide in my forthcoming book, Sacred Conversations: How God Wants us to Communicate.  

Leaders of faith-based organizations and congregations benefit from dialogue--particularly in times of change. I firmly believe that Christ-centered, human dialogue is the only tool that truly leads to sustainable change in faith-based organizations.

But not just any form of dialogue will do. The conversations must be structured within a larger context. They must be reflective and filled with trust and love. They must foster discernment. And the dialogue must be action-oriented. Talk with no action doesn't get you anywhere. This is where Sacred Conversations can be a gift from God. 

The foundations of the Sacred Conversations framework include: 

• Sacred scripture that addresses themes of love, communication, humility, and God’s holy will;
• Ignatian exercises including prayer, meditation, visualization, visioning, reflective conversation, spiritual direction/companionship, discernment, and laboring together with the Holy Spirit;
• Social scientific methods and promising practices pertaining to interpersonal and group discussion, decision-making, planning, prioritization, and change leadership.

Elements of the Sacred Conversations Framework

The specific elements of the Sacred Conversations framework that leaders find most useful include: 

• Core principles and 7 Rules of Engagement
• Conversational model (see Figure 1) and exercises to facilitate relationship and discernment
• Simple Organizational Discernment Model to facilitate clarity, inclusion, discernment, and community
• ABC’s of leadership discernment (see Chapter 6, Future-Ready Leadership )
• Sacred Conversations Workshops
• Roles and responsibilities for Seekers and Helpers
• Companionship through external process facilitation

Perhaps the most valuable element for applying Sacred Conversations to leadership discernment is the companionship and expertise of an external facilitator. Would a surgeon perform her own surgery? Can a struggling golfer correct his own slice? Do professional sports teams win championships without a coach? Of course not! The best in any vocation rely on faith (first and foremost) and outside perspective--Professional Helpers. That's where a trained Sacred Conversations facilitator can help leaders make the most of their time together. 

I have found that group workshops and 1:1 conversations, when used in combination with prayerful discernment, insights, data, and input from key stakeholders, provide the greatest likelihood for successful leadership decision-making and organizational change. 

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I love models that make complex things simple. Models help us represent "the real thing." Think model trains, model cars, or a simple blueprint. A simple model helps us wrap our heads and hearts around something that we have an interest in--and they're fun to play with! 

In this post, I want to provide a model of a new type of conversation. It is a conversation between two people or a small group who want to grow in faith, virtue, and their relationships. These conversations are intentional, more loving, and more transformative than most of the conversations we have in our day-to-day lives. I call these Sacred Conversations.

Sacred Conversations are human interactions designed to help participants involved become better versions of themselves. This is the definition that I provide in my forthcoming book, Sacred Conversations: How God Wants us to Communicate. 

Having studied and practiced sacred conversations in my personal spiritual discernment, family, friendships, and work with leaders and organizations for more than 20 years, I can attest they are the single-most important form of communication for personal and communal transformation.

For now, let's talk about the three basic parts of the sacred conversations model. 

Three Parts of the Sacred Conversations Model

The model in Figure 1 has three main parts: Inputs, Throughputs, and Outputs. I realize that this model might look too linear for some people. That's a fair criticism. In reality, conversations aren't this linear. I get that. No model is a perfect representation of the real thing.

However, I chose simplicity over complexity for one reason: To provide those who are struggling with their pain, suffering, hopes, and dreams with a scientifically valid and scripturally-rooted alternative form of communication that brings us together with the power of the Holy Spirit. 

While our hyper-connected digital culture gives us many ways to send and receive information, our social and community lives are languishing. We are losing our fundamental ability to connect and communicate with each other on a deeper, spiritual level. Therefore, communication (or lack thereof) is both the cause of and solution for the division, divisiveness, dysfunction, and loneliness in our relationships, organizations, and communities.

To improve our culture, we need to start having different conversations--Sacred Conversations. Here's what they look like and a brief introduction to the inputs, throughputs, and outputs that make them up. 

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